26-02-2008 16:18:11 <tomeump-766a>	anybody here for the sugar meeting?
26-02-2008 16:18:17 <tomeump-766a>	(sorry for being late)
26-02-2008 16:37:28 <garycmartin-ff33>	yea
26-02-2008 16:42:20 <tomeump-766a>	hi garycmartin-ff33
26-02-2008 16:43:50 <garycmartin-ff33>	Hi tomeump, look like it's going to be a short meeting... I was more here to listen in and get up to speed.
26-02-2008 16:49:34 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: ok, let's wait a bit more, morgs may join us later
26-02-2008 16:49:55 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: we'll mostly talk about what we've been doing since last week
26-02-2008 16:51:01 <garycmartin-ff33>	I caught up with last weeks irc from the log posted at the wiki.
26-02-2008 16:52:29 <garycmartin-ff33>	Noticed Eben's finaly started to upload some images of the new shell redesign : )
26-02-2008 17:01:41 <tomeump-766a>	oh, cool ;)
26-02-2008 17:01:48 <tomeump-766a>	marcopg: hey!
26-02-2008 17:01:52 <erikos>	garycmartin-ff33: oh yeah that is needed :)
26-02-2008 17:02:12 <marcopg>	tomeump-766a: hey!
26-02-2008 17:03:05 <tomeump-766a>	marcopg: we ate codfish at a portuguese place today ;)
26-02-2008 17:03:53 <erikos>	morgs: back from playing with the kids?
26-02-2008 17:04:30 <garycmartin-ff33>	It's under /go/Designs manily about activity managment, but if you look for recent file uploads you can see a bunch of other designs for journal not yet linked in.
26-02-2008 17:06:10 <erikos>	marcopg: so the test has not yet started and you can attend the meeting?
26-02-2008 17:06:58 <garycmartin-ff33>	the unlinked images can be seen in /go/Special:Newimages
26-02-2008 17:24:10 * morgs is here
26-02-2008 17:24:19 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: yeah, the activity management screenshots refer to the shell redesign we are starting
26-02-2008 17:25:05 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: the ones about the journal should help us advance with defining the requirements for the new datastore
26-02-2008 17:26:41 <morgs>	Nice new designs
26-02-2008 17:27:01 <tomeump-766a>	let me see
26-02-2008 17:28:10 <erikos>	so now we are all together we can start
26-02-2008 17:28:10 <tomeump-766a>	marcopg: have you talked with eben about going forward with the shell redesign and the new ds?
26-02-2008 17:33:41 <garycmartin-ff33>	does anyone else feel that the journal has a split personality with both the current and proposed shell? It's like "I'm an activity... no actually I'm core."
26-02-2008 17:34:26 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: that's something that has been discussed. I don't have an strong opinion one wy or another
26-02-2008 17:35:25 <garycmartin-ff33>	firt think I found myself doing with the new shell was looking through the activity ring to see where the journal was, and it's not there.
26-02-2008 17:35:28 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: what do you think? browsing the journal and doing things from its contents should be an activity?
26-02-2008 17:35:36 <garycmartin-ff33>	(first thing)
26-02-2008 17:35:54 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: you mean the mockups or last sugar?
26-02-2008 17:36:13 <morgs>	The journal's not optional - all the other activities are (at least in principle)
26-02-2008 17:36:20 <garycmartin-ff33>	The mockups.
26-02-2008 17:36:53 <tomeump-766a>	morgs: what else differentiates the journal from activities?
26-02-2008 17:37:38 <garycmartin-ff33>	I'd be happy to see it either as activity No1, always there. or not at all as an activity metaphor. Probably better as NOT an activity.
26-02-2008 17:38:14 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: oh, the journal should be always there in the current scheme
26-02-2008 17:38:31 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: the running activities are in the frame, next to the zoom levels
26-02-2008 17:38:32 <garycmartin-ff33>	Currently, and with the new mock-ups, it's half and half.
26-02-2008 17:38:49 <tomeump-766a>	talking about the new mockups, here
26-02-2008 17:39:47 <morgs>	The journal lets you uninstall activities (and install, although perhaps not explicitly *in* the journal)
26-02-2008 17:40:17 <tomeump-766a>	morgs: I think that will be done in the activity list, see the new mockups
26-02-2008 17:40:28 <morgs>	OK
26-02-2008 17:40:42 <tomeump-766a>	you can mark some as favorite, those will appear in the launcher ring
26-02-2008 17:40:46 <garycmartin-ff33>	yea. but Journal does not appear as an activity in the ring, yet it's shown as an activity. I think it should be more like the other main views (neighbourhood/friends/etc)
26-02-2008 17:40:57 <tomeump-766a>	oh, i see
26-02-2008 17:41:04 <morgs>	OK, well you wouldn't "Journal" on the XO as an explicit action - you'd Write, Paint, Record...
26-02-2008 17:41:10 <tomeump-766a>	yeah, the journal doesn't have a launcher
26-02-2008 17:41:12 <morgs>	Journal's more of a noun, as I see it
26-02-2008 17:41:21 <tomeump-766a>	yup
26-02-2008 17:41:40 <tomeump-766a>	we are quite split at that point
26-02-2008 17:42:01 <tomeump-766a>	the journal being part of the shell would save quite a bit of memory, as well ;)
26-02-2008 17:42:56 <tomeump-766a>	I think eben should give us his opinion on this, he must have already thought and discussed this quite a bit
26-02-2008 17:43:32 <garycmartin-ff33>	yep, it should be a 'core' mode of the UI yet it just looks like an activity kinda but not really.
26-02-2008 17:44:05 <tomeump-766a>	yeah, at some point we tended towrds that
26-02-2008 17:44:15 <tomeump-766a>	then we got back to the journal as an activity
26-02-2008 17:45:47 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33, morgs : what do you think about asking eben about this in the meeting minutes?
26-02-2008 17:46:09 <morgs>	tomeump-766a: good idea
26-02-2008 17:46:18 <garycmartin-ff33>	Yep, good call.
26-02-2008 17:46:20 <tomeump-766a>	we don't have anyone here to argue in favour of the journal as an activity
26-02-2008 17:46:58 <tomeump-766a>	so the screenshots are a great addition to the wiki
26-02-2008 17:47:07 <garycmartin-ff33>	I was going to add a talk entry on his new page, but it hardly seems fair as he's only just started to put it together : )
26-02-2008 17:47:16 <tomeump-766a>	wonder if eben intends to link to those from somewhere or if I should do that
26-02-2008 17:47:35 <tomeump-766a>	yeah, let's put that in the minutes as well
26-02-2008 17:51:22 <tomeump-766a>	so, what else is happening in sugarland?
26-02-2008 17:51:28 <tomeump-766a>	morgs?
26-02-2008 17:52:00 <morgs>	on the Presence Service side we're still stuck on scalability issues for Update.1
26-02-2008 17:52:16 <morgs>	I think one of the big items on the roadmap that will go together with Sugar is groups
26-02-2008 17:52:54 <tomeump-766a>	right, but I haven't seen lately mockup about that
26-02-2008 17:53:05 <tomeump-766a>	I think we wanted a list view in the nesh as well
26-02-2008 17:53:19 <tomeump-766a>	and the groups are even fuzzier,I fear
26-02-2008 17:53:27 <morgs>	I'm not sure if the PS and telepathy side of groups has been discussed enough - I'll look into that as there would be a lot of new functionality needed
26-02-2008 17:53:29 <tomeump-766a>	we also need eben for that :/
26-02-2008 17:53:52 <tomeump-766a>	morgs: do you have the user experience more or less clear?
26-02-2008 17:54:34 <morgs>	tomeump-766a: I have a vague idea, that's all...
26-02-2008 17:55:24 <morgs>	Groups would work like friending, but there would be multiple groups, and groups that the teacher can add children to, and potentially multiple friend groups
26-02-2008 17:55:33 <morgs>	Some are server side, some are client side IIRC
26-02-2008 17:55:55 <morgs>	There was some discussion on a Trac ticket many months ago
26-02-2008 17:56:33 <morgs>	Ah, #4043 FutureFeatures
26-02-2008 17:57:03 <morgs>	Eben did comment there
26-02-2008 17:57:18 <tomeump-766a>	so yeah, we should at least try to anticipate how hard will deployments need this
26-02-2008 17:58:26 <tomeump-766a>	erikos is doing something fun right now
26-02-2008 18:00:36 <erikos>	i am looking at webkit
26-02-2008 18:01:23 <erikos>	and just tried out the python bindings - to see how this compares to our xulrunner browse
26-02-2008 18:02:31 <erikos>	will play with it a bit and then i will give a report
26-02-2008 18:02:41 <erikos>	tomeump-766a: and your fun project?
26-02-2008 18:03:01 <tomeump-766a>	not as much fun :/
26-02-2008 18:03:18 <tomeump-766a>	I was looking at accelerators
26-02-2008 18:03:41 <tomeump-766a>	devised a way that could be quite easy for activities
26-02-2008 18:04:31 <tomeump-766a>	erikos, benzea and me have been looking at small fixes that could improve usability
26-02-2008 18:05:05 <tomeump-766a>	benzea fixed some issues with palettes getting stuck on the screen
26-02-2008 18:05:22 <erikos>	(persistent over zoom levels)
26-02-2008 18:05:53 <morgs>	yay for stuck palettes getting fixed
26-02-2008 18:05:55 <tomeump-766a>	perhaps I'll do that option for the control panel so there is a delay before the frame pops in
26-02-2008 18:06:20 <tomeump-766a>	haven't looked at it yet, though
26-02-2008 18:07:24 <erikos>	for browse we want to add: search and right click options
26-02-2008 18:07:51 <erikos>	back and forward should be good with accelerators
26-02-2008 18:10:28 <tomeump-766a>	adding those to toolbars should be quite easy
26-02-2008 18:10:45 <erikos>	and notifications is on the list - since we need to see when someone talks to us in irc :)
26-02-2008 18:10:53 <tomeump-766a>	would like to push that in the next couple of days
26-02-2008 18:12:40 <tomeump-766a>	one more thing:
26-02-2008 18:13:01 <tomeump-766a>	perhaps we could make something about the drag key
26-02-2008 18:13:22 <tomeump-766a>	make the two buttons to emulate the third one
26-02-2008 18:13:23 <morgs>	ooh notifications yeah
26-02-2008 18:13:52 <tomeump-766a>	and make the touchpad send scroll events when that thirs button is pressed
26-02-2008 18:14:10 <erikos>	morgs: knew you would be all for that
26-02-2008 18:14:10 <tomeump-766a>	that may work ithout modifying drivers
26-02-2008 18:14:22 <morgs>	erikos: would be good for chat too
26-02-2008 18:14:28 <garycmartin-ff33>	I take it that these are all U.2 projects now? Do they go into the current joyride?
26-02-2008 18:14:45 <morgs>	joyride's still feeding into Update.1
26-02-2008 18:14:53 <garycmartin-ff33>	Ahh.
26-02-2008 18:14:58 <morgs>	:(
26-02-2008 18:15:01 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: certainly unstable, not sure if u2 or u3
26-02-2008 18:15:11 <erikos>	morgs: absolutely: we thought to start with a little box on the right bottom
26-02-2008 18:15:37 <erikos>	morgs: containing the icon of the activity that 'calls' you
26-02-2008 18:15:49 <morgs>	nice
26-02-2008 18:15:53 <morgs>	invitations too
26-02-2008 18:16:50 <garycmartin-ff33>	So folks have their own patches/trees floating about until U1 is done?
26-02-2008 18:17:33 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: we are pushing that to master
26-02-2008 18:17:55 <tomeump-766a>	garycmartin-ff33: but not to the update.1 branch
26-02-2008 18:18:09 <garycmartin-ff33>	OK, thanks.
26-02-2008 18:18:25 <tomeump-766a>	and some floating patches too, before people agree on those
26-02-2008 18:18:32 <tomeump-766a>	(like the accelerators patch)
26-02-2008 18:18:41 <erikos>	morgs: yeah invitations as well - in the mockups there was something about different notifications in different corners
26-02-2008 18:18:48 <morgs>	cool
26-02-2008 18:18:50 <erikos>	like for devices as well
26-02-2008 18:19:23 <tomeump-766a>	and clipboard clippings!
26-02-2008 18:19:33 <tomeump-766a>	(when you ctrl-c something)
26-02-2008 18:19:49 <erikos>	so that not the hole frame comes up
26-02-2008 18:20:11 <erikos>	but that is for discussion with eben i guess
26-02-2008 18:23:55 <erikos>	anything else on the plate?
26-02-2008 18:26:01 <morgs>	Nothing more from me :)
26-02-2008 18:26:04 <erikos>	so i would say we can finish here?
26-02-2008 18:26:23 <erikos>	i changed the time now to 17.00 (UTC) on the wiki
26-02-2008 18:26:43 <morgs>	Cool - I'll try to be more on time next week
26-02-2008 18:27:09 <erikos>	morgs: that is fine - happy we already made it again tis week
26-02-2008 18:27:22 <erikos>	it is hard to be consistent :)
26-02-2008 18:27:45 <garycmartin-ff33>	So next week is a 'large' meeting then?
26-02-2008 18:27:50 * erikos is going for little steps
26-02-2008 18:28:11 <erikos>	garycmartin-ff33: yup
26-02-2008 18:29:11 <garycmartin-ff33>	Hopefuly Eban will have some more of his designs up and documented by then.
26-02-2008 18:29:49 <erikos>	garycmartin-ff33: yup and would be good if eben could make it as well
26-02-2008 18:29:50 <tomeump-766a>	could be, would be good to have more design discussions both in the ml and in the meetings
26-02-2008 18:31:48 <erikos>	so thanks for joining everyone!